This Way Network: Michael Gavlak & Jefferson Drexler
Congressman: Is Candidly and openly calling for a nationwide ban on all abortions with no exceptions for rape or incest. And if I’ve got that wrong, I’d invite Ms. Foster to correct me. Do I have it wrong, yes or no?
Ms. Foster: Um If we added rape and incest exceptions would you vote for it?
Congressman: Oh okay, I reclaim my time. Of course, uh.
Michael: That is the first time I’ve seen that.
Joel: Oh yeah.
Michael: I read about it. I read about it, oh boy.
Joel: You’re not used to smart, pointed, on target comebacks, are you?
Michael: Talk about it, that’s like an eternal meme now. That’s a thing that’s happened, that will never unhappen. Right, it’s like already we have it on our network, recorded and distributed at the beginning of The Chat Session. Hello everyone, welcome to The Chat Session. Welcome back to Joel Fieri, as one of our regular recurring guests. Actually, our first recurring guest. I think you were probably the first regular.
Joel: What an honor.
Michael: You and – I guess you and Jefferson, it’s just a high. You both recurred together first.
Joel: We’re recurring people, yeah.
Michael: Alright, where is this going?
Joel: I don’t know.
Michael: So, who was that? That we just saw, those two people? I didn’t see the names. I came in late.
Joel: Oh, one was a Senator, and one was a lady by the last name of Foster? Uh so, I had never seen them before.
Michael: An activist or something?
Joel: She seemed – She came across like a pro life activist, yeah. And she stiffed the Senator that didn’t quite know how to react to something smart.
Michael: It’s like wait, if you’re going to respond with things that – Yeah.
Joel: It’s like, the way we do things here.
Michael: That’s the beauty, the beauty of – Here’s the thing, this is true of so many things. For example, politically and you know, you and I like to talk about Jesus more than anything else, but politically as well, right now it’s primary season, right? You know the tradition in our culture is both, any party that wants to go, you know, try to become leader of our country has to pick people. And so, we’re in that season. And number 45, the president before this one, has endorsed hundreds, I guess hundreds. I don’t know how many total, he’s endorsed. But primary season is now, and we already have a tally of like 85 wins, 3 losses and one TBD, right? And if you report on the losses, like if the media goes, “He lost a guy in Nebraska. He was endorsed and he lost.” But you don’t see people say, “He lost the guy in Nebraska.” Because it would draw attention to the fact that he won the majority.
Joel: Oh, okay.
Michael: Things that they could spin as something good but sometimes they don’t realize how bad it is to draw attention to. They like to draw attention to the issue that – You know, would you vote for it now? You’re making a complaint, some kind of empty complaint, right? I don’t even know what I’m allowed to talk about on this network anymore, right?
Joel: Well, it’s like I said last time, every time I come on, you’re like, “Joel, don’t say that.” At least last time it was the first time I’d been on, where you didn’t say, “Oh no, don’t.” So, I’m like, “Yeah, give me a briefing. This is the things this week that we can’t say.”
Michael: You know what, you can say – No, I’m not going to say, you can say whatever you want. Because that’s the thing, people think censorship – Right, censorship is the problem, yes. People abuse censorship. Censorship in itself isn’t evil, isn’t wrong, right? There are certain things you should not allow out there, that are not – Get my focus back. Certain things that you do, like I don’t want certain types of content. I don’t want my eyes to ever cross it. I don’t want my ears to ever hear it, right? I mean there are things that we should not deny exist, like, the horrible things that go on in the world. But there are also exploitative things, that we don’t want to be associated with. So that you have to censor somethings. Even, you know, the government censors, but then, that’s who government is. Whoever controls the censors, that’s – I don’t know. Self-censoring is what we have to do.
Joel: Right. Right, and just like discrimination. Discrimination, like everybody discriminates on some level.
Michael: I wrote a paper.
Joel: You can discriminate on who’s show you go on or whatever.
Michael: I wrote a paper in college. My professor hated it, but he gave me a good grade, I guess. I forget what the name of it was, but I used that argument of, I prefer strawberry milkshakes, right? I discriminated against chocolate and vanilla – discriminate against chocolate and vanilla. Preferential treatment, I give preferential treatment to strawberry. It’s just something I’m like –
Joel: Go to Sonic and try the strawberry banana. You’ll never go back to just strawberry.
Michael: Sonic, okay.
Joel: Sonic shakes are – It’s hard to mess up a milkshake, but Sonic seems to take it to a new level. So-
Michael: Sonic has some good stuff. Sonic is kind of an Americana, right?
Joel: It is.
Michael: Do you know the history, at all?
Joel: They’re new. They’re new around here. Don’t get me to talking about food, we’ll take the whole half hour for some food.
Michael: Alright, well so, what would you like to discuss this morning?
Joel: Well, nothing.
Michael: Okay.
Joel: I come to you with an open mind and an open plate.
Michael: Tabula rasa?
Joel: What is it?
Michael: Tabula rasa, tabula being tablet and rasa being erased or clean slate.
Joel: Yeah, okay.
Michael: Tabula rasa – Well, unfortunately I missed the very beginning. Matt, could you play that again. I want to watch that again. I want to see it. I’m pulling this on my producer. I want to watch – Queue it on –
Joel: Oh yeah, Matt seems like a guy who can handle it.
Michael: Well, he’s going to have to cut us off when he gets it queued up.
Congressman: Is candidly and openly calling for a nationwide ban on all abortions with no exceptions for rape or incest. And if I’ve got that wrong, I’d invite Ms. Foster to correct me. Do I have it wrong, yes or no?
Ms. Foster: Um, if we added rape and incest exceptions, would you vote for it?
Congressman: Okay, I reclaim my time. Of course, uh –
Michael: Reclaim my time, of course? Did he go on and say the things? What does it even mean, I reclaim my time? She asked a point yes or no question, pointed yes or no question. That’s like –
Joel: And it was so clarifying, you know?
Michael: Mm-hmm.
Joel: And that is the thing, that’s such a canard, that argument always seemed to me. And if you listen to medical people, the rape and incest thing, lack of the mother – Usually lack of the mother that’s kind of the canard, because medical people tell you that that never happens. It’s not really a thing and the rape and incest thing hardly ever happens. It’s like one percent or something.
Michael: So, special interest, right – You hear about – First of all, I want to acknowledge two people, I have been provided some good information. Sonic began in Oklahoma City in the seventies. In fact, I think I know a guy who owns a bunch of Sonics from Oklahoma, right? I met a guy and Jaqueline Edwards, Good morning to you as well. That woman, I don’t know which woman, probably the nominee for the next Supreme Court Justice, couldn’t define woman. Um, I lost my train of thought, but one thing I was going to say, this issue is so black and white, and it is – Like, whenever you come on, I mention Tim Poole. Right, and in that chest, it’s like alright, here’s what Tim Poole said, and he’s pro-abortion, he’s pro-choice. He wouldn’t say pro-abortion.
Joel: Right.
Michael: But the way they’re drawing it right now, there’s no gray area. It’s either all the way up to nine months or then on the other side, not at all, right? Why are we allowing this thing to happen? It’s like literally as stark the contrast and Tim Poole’s like, “Well, if I had to choose between those two choices, I would absolutely go with, let that baby live.” Right? That’s from a pro choice guy.
Joel: Yeah.
Michael: And because the lines are so starkly drawn now, you are drawing all of the people that were allowing it. But to have to say which, it’s all or nothing, well then none. Right? I’d rather no babies die than – Right? It’s like, wow.
Joel: Well, I mean there’s a lot – If you – That’s the kind of thing that’s happened over the last ten years, that kind of online – These online shows like the one we’re doing now, have been on and I’ve seen over the years so many guys – well it’s mostly guys, who are liberal. The more they interact with conservative people and the more crazy the progressive side gets – You see guys like Dave Rubin and Stefan Molyneux, all these guys start off very left are like, “wait a minute, my side’s crazy.” You know, and I’ve heard Tim Poole’s – heard some of the discussions they’ve had in the last week or so on this, and they’re just like, “the idea of killing a viable baby is just horrifying.” How can people, can you –
Michael: The guests that Tucker Carlson has on, are like – Wait, he’ll have people that are total democrats or that were like feminists – that are like, “No, you’re right Tucker, about this thing, this one thing.” About defining the word woman, et cetera. And then, who does he have? There’s this guy he has that started a magazine and then he got kicked out of his magazine because the magazine went woke. I forget his name, but he has him on, all the time. He’s like progressive, he used to be known as a progressive and now he’s like exposing. He’s brilliant, he’s on Substack and I forget his name, but – The guy that you turned me onto and I’m crediting you fully. Do you remember who you told me to follow? Or is it check out after I told you about Tim Poole. You may have already –
Joel: Was it Turley?
Michael: Uh-huh.
Joel: Steven Turley?
Michael. Yeah.
Joel: Oh yeah, yeah do you watch him?
Michael: Dude, that’s my daily go to now.
Joel: Oh, is it really?
Michael: More than Tim Poole. I mean every now and then I’ll watch a Tim Poole video, but I’ll catch just about everything that Turley does.
Joel: Yeah, he’s good. Very thorough, and right on point. But –
Michael: I met him in person. Did you know I met him in person?
Joel: Oh really? Cool.
Michael: Yeah.
Joel: Where’d you meet him.
Michael: Uh, in Florida.
Joel: Oh.
Michael: We went, and that’s pretty much why I went. He was at this launch of this tour. It was the first one they were doing and 45 junior, DJT Junior was there.
Joel: Oh really?
Michael: And Dan Bongino was there. All – you know a bunch of heroes that politically – But Steve Turley was there and that’s why I was there and so, thank you, thank you, thank you Joel.
Joel: There’s a lot of other voices out there, it is funny, but actually that clip that you played it kind of encapsulates that whole phenomenon. It’s like you have, you know, this out of touch – I assume it was a Senator, it might have been a Representative, whatever, just this out of touch, beltway politician. He just reached it, right? Trying to make and pontificate and obscure the point and make a false argument, and you know red herring, straw man, whatever you want to call it right, straw man argument, and this lady just – You can tell, she’s just like – You can tell by the look in her eyes, it’s like, “I know it’s coming and I know what – And her response is so smart.
Michael: Right, she’s just – This is not a surprise to her, she’s like –
Joel: She’s like this is where the point center is and he’s just like, “Bah.”
Michael: She’s giving him the rope, “Here, keep going.” Yeah, long rope and he’s just like – (choking noise)
Joel: But anybody can see that, it’s not – You don’t have to be – Normal people can see that, you know like normal people who aren’t in politics.
Michael: A slimy, smarmy politician.
Joel: Yeah.
Michael: Getting owned.
Joel: Yeah.
Michael: Just getting owned outright. And you wonder – And here this is what I like to do, that poor guy, right? That poor guy, he probably relished this opportunity to be the face, I have my moment, my five minutes, whatever amount of time. There’s a bunch of them in however many get to speak, right? Maybe he has to submit for it, I don’t know how it works behind the scenes, but he gets his allotted time to berate her, or whatever, right.
Joel: Right.
Michael: Lambast her for her ignorance and her evil, right?
Joel: It’s silly, beyond –
Michael: Right, and so he’s got staffers that hand him something, probably five seconds before, well that’s not so long. I don’t know, maybe the night before and he looks around, “Well this makes sense, I’m just going to say these things.” And there’s no prep for what to say.
Joel: As if that point hasn’t been made a thousand times before. I mean it’s; I think it’s their view, “We’re the high and mighty, we’re the ones.” You know, “We’re the elite people, we’re the ruling class, you little peons.”
Michael: Yeah, “Who are you? You know nothing.”
Joel: “You know nothing and we have this – “ I’m sure Tim is shocked that someone on the other side would have an intelligent, to the point response, that is well thought out. You know that –
Michael: Mm-hmm.
Joel: People have been making for the last twenty years, but he’s so out of touch.
Michael: Yeah.
Joel: He’s beholden to his ideology or like you said somebody’s prepping him or funding him, or whatever, he can’t afford that.
Michael: His mind –
Joel: He can’t afford to look at the other side.
Michael: Here’s what I imagine what their minds are set on, right? They are probably preoccupied with so many other things that are more important than governing? Right, like caring, caring about why they’re in their position. They’re probably just planning the next party or some – Whatever is going on.
Joel: Yeah.
Michael: I don’t want to –
Joel: “My assistant is making dinner reservations for me tonight.”
Michael: Wait, he’s not a creative thinker. He didn’t get there because he studies these issues and is up on how he has the ability in his designated position because he’s not a – He thinks he’s a king, but he’s a representative and he’s supposed to do certain things and that’s why he’s there.
Joel. Right.
Michael: And I guess the fallback is, there is part of his constituency that are radical like him. Right? Like he’s got to listen to the most radical and become as radical because he’s beholden to certain constituencies. Oh, humph.
Joel: Yeah, I see that’s kind of the way the world – That’s the way the world –
Michael: A shrinking, a shrinking constituency, I will say.
Joel: I, yeah, I would think so because like I said, people are just normal people, you can’t avoid it now. You just can’t avoid how crazy these people are. In my – People in my life who have been democrats, or consider themselves liberal or whatever, are just like, “Oh, but my sides just out of touch reality. These people are really crazy.” And like I said, even a simple – And what this lady said was not that deep, it’s just like –
Michael: It’s a zinger.
Joel: It’s a logical response to that argument that he’s making, you’re saying we don’t support rape or incest. Well, if we did support that would you vote for it, knowing that he wouldn’t. She just exposed his false argument.
Michael: Hypocrisy, right? Why are you making that –
Joel: She basically said, you don’t really mean it, which is the same as you don’t really mean it.
Michael: Right, hypocrite. Alright, I got to fix my focus, there we go. So basically, that word is the paraphrase of a hypocrite, right? So, here’s a way to say, hypocrite with a question. Hypocrite!
Joel: Well yeah and it’s – And I guarantee he was so dumbfounded by that, I think if I were making the argument, as I would expect someone with that comeback, I would have at least thought through. And a fair person, would say okay, if you add those provisions, I will vote for it.
Michael: I love that –
Joel: Why is he making an argument?
Michael: I love that it’s televised, right?
Joel: Yes.
Michael: So, it’s just like that, that’s just a service provided. We should actually have access to what our representatives are doing, transparency. In fact, there should be way, way more transparency.
Joel: Well and this, I say, and you know how I like to take how as we as Christians, how do we in The Church look at something like this? I mean this is something that is very destructive to us. Because hypocrisy doesn’t seem to bother them. It doesn’t, in fact it doesn’t bother them. Hypocrisy is fine as long as it allows you to maintain your power.
Michael: It’s situational ethics, it’s situational ethics. Hypocrisy is okay if there’s a greater good.
Joel: Right.
Michael: They think they’re –
Joel: Do you, do you remember the famous line from Dallas, J. R. Ewing? Back in the day, you were probably a little young.
Michael: I remember who shot J. R., I remember that.
Joel: Yeah, who shot J. R., he was Dallas. I’m sure there’s a lot of people who know so maybe –
Michael: Patrick Duffy was Aqua man, so I knew who that was.
Joel: Yeah, he was the brother and Larry Hagman was – Someone said, “How can you be so in, and J. R. was just so corrupt little guy.”
Michael: Corrupt, yeah.
Joel: And they say, “How can you be like that?” And he goes, “Huh, once you give up on integrity the rest is a piece of cake.”
Michael: Scripted and a whole generation of politicians said, “J. R., you’re right.”
Joel: And it – But um, what I said – the reason I think it’s directed at The Church because, like I said, there’s – With what’s going on in society now, I see a lot of – Again, with the evangelical leadership that we have today that is so troubling. There’s a lot of evangelical leaders that are taking this whole controversy and saying, “You know, we need to see the other side.” Or “Of course, I’m totally against abortion, but we need to – “ You know, some are just plain old pro abortion Christians. And I’m like, “You need to see this kind of stuff.” And you need to see – This is so instructive, not even on the abortion issue but on the integrity issue, on the honesty, on the character, on God wants from a man. That’s a man up there that has no principles, you know, no integrity. No thought to what is right and wrong and certainly not any thought to putting life in a Christian worldview, or the issue in a Christian worldview. But those are the people that a lot of evangelical leaders and a lot of Christians are letting pull us down a path that we shouldn’t go. I tell you it’s instructive on a political sense, it’s also, I think, very instructive to us as Christians, on how our position in society.
Michael: Yeah, Mom’s got it here, right. Christians compromising with the world. And you’re talking about the leaders, the leadership compromising with the world.
Joel: Yeah, and that’s really what it’s down to. And through the whole – all the shenanigans over the last couple of years. In a lot of different ways, a lot of people took a lot of Christian leaders, not only pastors leading their churches to shut down, or the curses we were having. We just took the world’s queues on every step of the way and now we have pretty much a divided – I think, a Christian community, that I think it’s going to be interesting to see how we come together on a lot of these things.
Michael: I’m gonna confess, right. Like, I was very upset with our circumstance for the Church. Because I’m an elder, right? Well, I’m not active right now but once an elder, always an elder in the denomination that I’m in. I’m a founding elder, I was one of the first people, et cetera, at this new church, but we never had a building, right? We were never interested in having a building, we don’t want to have a building. We want to be in the community, so we rent at the Senior Center and the Senior Center, those are the high risk, right? So, those were the people who were among the most at risk that, the elderly or the preexisting conditions. So, it makes sense not to meet there but it’s frustrating as heck to witness The Church dividing like you’ve said. Like, there’s plenty of pastors that stood their ground, and you know, had the police show up and it’s like, “What the heck.” And so, I guess the scripture that comes to mind is all that can shake is going to shake, right? In every generation, there are those who do not understand the purpose of The Church, or the purpose of Christianity, the purpose or what it’s really about. Have you ever heard of Nehemiah Institute? I just heard of this yesterday.
Joel: Maybe.
Michael. It was a guest on a show that I watch, or a YouTube channel that I watch. And he developed a test called peers, P-E-E-R-S. And it’s an acronym for whatever, but it’s a test to determine how biblical your church is. Or, how biblical you are in your beliefs and your understandings. It’s like, is it the government’s job to – Right, different kinds of questions, all theoretical, but do you think it’s the government’s job to do such and such? You know, actually, when it’s always been the church’s, the charity to do certain things. It’s tracking the biblical view and of a church body or of an individual. And it’s right in line with what you’re talking about. It’s like, what is a biblical worldview? What is a worldview? Right, and the biblical worldview is God’s worldview.
Joel: Yeah, and so much a part of that is where The Church is at these days. You rarely hear anything like worldview preaching.
Michael: Yeah.
Joel: The focus of The Church now is just to get the experience of worship so dynamic that people will want to keep coming back.
Michael: It’s a come and stay and feel something. A concert – There’s room for that, I love worship, but you’re supposed to worship God with all your mind. So don’t forget that part, it’s critical.
Joel: Yeah, it’s more just rocking out to that. It’s a whole, you know, your spiritual service of worship is considering yourself as a whole –
Michael: Human, a whole human who has a mind, knowledge.
Joel: Right.
Michael: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, right?
Joel: Right, but how much of the fear of the Lord is preached today? You know, people don’t want to hear that. They want to hear the next – They want to see the smoke machines, and they want to see – And they want to hear the latest song, love song to Jesus, and some of them are a little bit creepy. So –
Michael: In my morning walk, let me just say, in my morning prayer, this morning, not coincidentally, I guess providentially. You know, what is worshipping God? I guess, singing songs, or living for him or considering him. And today, this morning, just spontaneously I was grieving for humanity that is suffering perpetually at all times, right? You know we are blessed where we live and what we do and you know, I have a family. I am so incredibly blessed and privileged and I’m one of the elites, right. We, whoever lives in America, we are elite. We are an elite nation, we thrive. The poorest people here are considered wealthy. But you know, those scales can tip, et cetera.
Joel: Right.
Michael: But always, around the world, there are individual human beings suffering dramatically, like, unimaginably injustices and abuse, et cetera, et cetera. And so, God is everywhere at all times, and he is grieving with those who are grieving and simultaneously rejoicing with those who are rejoicing. So having a correct worldview is knowing what evil is going on in the world and the good news is Christianity thrives in suffering.
Joel: Well yeah, and I’m always telling my kids or anybody, that like you said, this moment in history that we’re living in, to be you and me in Southern California and when we did, we’re one in a billion or whatever. This all could – That’s not the norm.
Michael: It’s not.
Joel: The norm is not our reality, but we think it is. And we tailored our worship experience, and we tailored our churches to that, to thinking this is normal.
Michael: Go and building and feel good, then I’ll sleep with your – Whatever, right?
Joel: And really not know, really not know the God you’re singing to. You know, because we haven’t taught the Christian worldview. We haven’t – Theology is no longer cool. No, it’s not about beliefs, it’s about belonging or whatever. No, it’s really about this guy laid down some very specific things about himself that he wants us to know.
Michael: Right, and he laid it out and he – I’m just, I’m scrolling to one of the passages that was part of my show I do before this, Bible Every Morning. Today, we did Proverbs 9, chapter 9 was the hardest.
Joel: Yeah, I used to hear your – I used to hear your thing before I came on.
Michael: So, what we did, was we separated the recordings, right? It used to be just one recording.
Joel: Yeah, it used to be one run.
Michael: You have to go and find; you have to go and find that now. So, Proverbs 9, verse 10, “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” And then in poetry, there’s always that second line that says the same thing in different words, right, like often. “The knowledge of the Holy One is insight.” Right? That word “is”, is an equivalency, right? So, knowledge of the Holy One, knowledge of God is insight, or insight is the knowledge of the Holy One. So, as you expand your knowledge, you should be reading books or we should be interested in so many different things because you learn about God by learning history, what’s going on in the world, really, instead of just being entertained.
Joel: Yeah, we all have a heart mind, that’s the mind part of it.
Michael: The mind and wondrous nature.
Joel: Your character, that’s part of who you are. So, you shouldn’t allow that to change.
Michael: Joel, any updates of what’s going on in your life. Because I want to do a quick update.
Joel: Not really, we’re – A lot of transitions that we have, in our family. My wife’s dear mother passed away last month. Her mom was surrounded by all of her children.
Michael: Friends are everywhere. Oh, that’s good.
Joel: Yeah, we had a son moving out, you know in a new world. The arrow’s been shot, we’ll see how straight it flies right? So yeah, a lot of transitions in our life right now. But, you know, God is good and it’s all kind of transitions that need to happen in life, that we all signed up for, that we’ll make some days.
Michael. Yep.
Joel: But it has been an interesting couple of months. So, life is good for the Gavlak clan?
Michael: Yeah, we’re – My two younger ones are in high school and thriving in sports and doing finals et cetera, et cetera. And my oldest is back in the house for a little bit, we don’t know how long. She’s looking for another apartment, we’ll see. It’s good to have her around because we get to see her.
Joel: Sometimes those arrows tend to boomerang.
Michael: Oh yeah, well, that’s good.
Joel: Oh yeah, it’s good.
Michael: I would love to have them always around me at all times, always.
Joel: You got to let them go, Michael.
Michael: Yeah, I know. But so, here’s – I’m about in the depths, I don’t know if I mentioned this to you before. I’m hard at work in getting a book ready for Christmas, to sell, right, to have on the market, like around Christmas. I don’t know if I mentioned that, but –
Joel: You’ve talked about your book before.
Michael. Yeah so, it’s going to be like a milestone. It’s like, this will be kind of a pole in the ground. A moment in history, where some important story is told in English for the first time, and it just needs to get done. It’s like a spiritual moment, you know, I’m not thinking about how we’re going to sell, how much we need to sell, blah, blah, blah. That’s not it, it’s about I want to give this book to certain people and then sell it to people who are interested in buying it, but just getting it done is the goal right now. Obviously, marketing is a part of it, that’s all being devised, that’s why it’s so much work right now. So –
Joel: Well, you’re the man for it.
Michael: Plus, I got to do a day job, which I’m going to do right now. Good to see you, Joel.
Joel: It’s good seeing you.
Michael: Bye everybody, good seeing you.