This Way Network: Michael Gavlak & Jefferson Drexler

Michael:
… a friendly face.

Jefferson Drexler:
Hey there, my brother.

Michael:
Drexler, right? Last name?

Jefferson Drexler:
Yes, sir.

Michael:
What’d you say?

Jefferson Drexler:
Going by last name? Gavlak?

Michael:
Oh, maybe I shouldn’t. I don’t actually, I go by my last name in certain settings. And I’m doing something here and building something, and I don’t want the publicity to get out too soon, right?

Jefferson Drexler:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Michael:
There’s a timing of, I need to be on the down low for as long as possible, and so we’re teasing. Anybody watching this, it’s easy to find out who I am and my last name and what I’m about. But there’s something about fame that when you haven’t experienced it, you better be ready if you’re planning. If you’re intending, if you hope to be famous, you better really think it through. What it means is eternally losing your anonymity for… Well, when you talk about eternity, there will be periods of time. We still know Julia Caesar’s name. But we don’t know that many people from back then, but more people know Abraham Lincoln’s name. And so fame changes your life dramatically. So if you really want fame, you better think it through and see a psychiatrist.

Jefferson Drexler:
See, now, you’re just quoting David Bowie.

Michael:
Give it to me. Give me the lyrics.

Jefferson Drexler:
(Singing).

Michael:
And those… Oh good. I’m glad you had that. Those are words from a guy on the other side of it.

Jefferson Drexler:
Uh-huh (affirmative).

Michael:
Right? You and I are not on that side of fame.

Jefferson Drexler:
I remember. And this has nothing to do with fame, but it was just, it was a funny story. I used to work for this megachurch down here near San Diego. And I would do, every two weeks, these announcement update videos, where I was like the Ryan Seacrest guy on these videos for the congregation to see. And I was at the grocery store.

Michael:
I have-

Jefferson Drexler:
My son and I-

Michael:
… I have a Ryan Seacrest story, but remind me, I’ll tell you later.

Jefferson Drexler:
So, I’m at the grocery store, and my son and I had ridden our bikes to the store to pick up some stuff real quick. So I’m hot, and I’m sweaty. And then my son starts acting up, and I’m chasing him around, trying to order from the meat counter. And it’s just one of those moments where you want to be anonymous. And there’s this family over next to the side. And the guy goes, “Hey, you’re that guy from church?” And I’m suddenly like, “Oh, yeah, there’s a life outside of Ralphs.” There’s-

Michael:
Right.

Jefferson Drexler:
… a mantle that I have that you don’t want to always have. And yet when you choose to be on camera, or when you choose to be a face of something, then that comes with a certain responsibility. So what’d Ryan do to you?

Michael:
My first, no, my second job in Hollywood. Yeah. Okay. Real quick. First job in Hollywood. I worked on a show called Super Nanny. Have you heard of Super Nanny?

Jefferson Drexler:
Dude, we lived by it. We had little kids during that era.

Michael:
She was amazing. Right? So here I am. I got my foot in the door in Hollywood working behind the scenes. I started in the casting department and then moved over to the post-production, where I became an editor or assistant editor, et cetera. And she was actually helping people. I was the assistant editor sitting behind the scenes, watching the actual footage. And there were episodes that they have a timeframe. You can’t force a fix in a family. You can’t force a fix. Your family has to be fixed in 10 days, really three-day shoots. Trying to get in and out. That’s a Hollywood schedule. You’re trying to fix a family in three days. Well, they shoot all this stuff.

Michael:
And there was one family that every one of them was helped. And one of them, I saw that behind the scenes’ footage on day three or four, and it was not good. The husband and wife were on the verge of divorce, and they were faking the ending, it seemed like. And then they did a, “Where are they now?” episode toward the end of the season. “Where are they now?” And that was the family that was helped the most. They just weren’t able to film it in… They had the deepest problems, so it was longer to work out, not within a television production schedule or reality TV production schedule. Boy, that is a major tangent because we were talking about Ryan Seacrest, weren’t we? So

Jefferson Drexler:
Yeah.

Michael:
My second job, a producer from that show, Super Nanny, moved over to another show. Actually, to the company that did the show, Blind Date. It was a different show that company was doing, but they were still doing Blind Date. And he took me with him. That producer said, “Come with me over to this. Work on this show.” I didn’t work on Blind Date, but I worked behind the scenes and saw what was going on. And I saw Ryan Seacrest was on Blind Date. He was one of the daters way back when he was just, he was a fledgling radio personality or something. It was in one of the early seasons.

Michael:
Because when you work, when a show goes on for 6, 7, 8 seasons like that, there’s all kinds of archives that you always replay. The people that came on that became famous. Have you ever seen Arnold Schwarzenegger on The Dating Game or something like that?

Jefferson Drexler:
Yeah, yeah.

Michael:
Arnold Schwarzenegger. People climbing.

Have I ever… I’ll be back. I can’t do an Arnold. I haven’t really ever done one, but. So you-

Jefferson Drexler:
That would be your dream vacation.

Michael:
Impressive. Very nice.

Jefferson Drexler:
You get in the chopper.

Michael:
But Ryan Seacrest-

Jefferson Drexler:
We’re back to Seacrest.

Michael:
Good. No. That’s good. We’ll snip that out and use it in our trailers. We’ll use the audio and Arnold’s picture. We had Arnold Schwarzenegger on the radio. I’m just kidding. But in his date, he clearly was, he was playing the good guy, clean cut role. It was an image thing. He’s getting on camera. He gets to hang out with some stranger on camera at a bar and talk and have conversation. It was clear that he was not looking for a relationship. It was a TV spot. Oh, that’ll be good on your resume. More people will know you. You’ll pick up a fan base or whatever, like an influencer does. So you’re famous. Are you still famous in that bubble? Do you run into people that know-

Jefferson Drexler:
No, no.

Michael:
… you from that still?

Jefferson Drexler:
No, I could not be more anonymous.

Michael:
So.

Jefferson Drexler:
Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Michael:
Well, this whole conversation started with last names, so. Jefferson, let’s stay with. Let’s do it, Michael and Jefferson. I just noticed our names are not up. That’s weird. I don’t know. Jefferson and Michael. What did we talk about last time that we didn’t finish talking about? Do you remember? Do you have any recollection?

Jefferson Drexler:
I don’t. Last time we spoke, it was right after the Oscars, I remember that. And we talked about that whole phenomenon. And it, I was thinking about that conversation the other day. I do, I direct a podcast for a Christian comedian and what he tries to do is tie in news headlines. So keep-

Michael:
I think I’ve been there for the filming of that.

Jefferson Drexler:
Ah.

Michael:
I think-

Jefferson Drexler:
Over in our studio. Yeah.

Michael:
I think I came through.

Jefferson Drexler:
We were just talking about how that moment, while, and I know for your life too, it seemed all encompassing. It seemed like every breath and every conversation had to do with, “Did you see the Oscars? Did you see what happened?” And-

Michael:
Oh, from the Oscars. From the Oscars.

Jefferson Drexler:
Two weeks later, and it seems like ancient history that just the pace that our lives run. It’s not just the pace of-

Michael:
The news cycle.

Jefferson Drexler:
… the news cycle. It’s the pace of our lives too, that we pile on so much in every day-to-day-

Michael:
Consuming and producing.

Jefferson Drexler:
… that now these huge moments are specks in the rear mirror.

Michael:
Well, now that you mention that, it still comes up, for me. They’re still trying to capitalize on it. This week, I only edited one or two references to it. I do about two pieces a day on my job. I cut about two different segments a day. And there’s about 10 or actually there’s 20 editors, but in my team, there’s about 10 or 11 editors. And so I don’t know what other people are dealing with, but I ended up having to create a sub clip, because they want us to use the slap.

Michael:
They want us to use the slap, if we’re talking about it, and it’s some other actor. And you’re asking them, or they were there or whatever, and you got to reference it. You got to, “And were you, blah, blah, blah, blah?” And then you cut in with a, whatever Chris Rock says. And then, you move on with the interview or whatever.

Michael:
And so what I did, because I was using it so much, and they were all asking for it, is I sub clipped out my edit of the slap, and I made it a triple slap. I made it a bam bam. It’s like, bam, bam, and zoomed.

Jefferson Drexler:
Jean-Claude Van Dammerly.

Michael:
And you’re pushing in on it. And so it’s like Clip Show. Clip Shows, you do that kind of technique. They repeat stuff, slow it down, reverse it, whatever. And I used to work on Clip Show, so I know how to do that. So for this event I went, I just, bam, bam, bam. And some of Chris Rock’s audio. He’s like, “Oh, dude,” or whatever he says. So I sub clipped it, and called it the slap. And now I just insert it whenever they need it. So I don’t have to redo it every time. A cultural phenomenon.

Michael:
But the news cycle. Tell me about the news cycle. Everybody has different sources. Who are your sources that you rely on? Because you don’t have enough time to go through everything. What do you listen to when you watch?

Jefferson Drexler:
That’s a great question. Actually, my 18-year-old and I were just talking about that last night. I have my preferred go-tos, which is Daily Wire, Tim Pool, some of the more conservative right-leaning. But I always make sure-

Michael:
Tim Pool would say, “What?” Tim would say, “I’m not conservative. What are you talking about?”

Jefferson Drexler:
Actually, it’s funny. He was just talking to the Daily Wire guys yesterday. And he was shocked, like, “Wait a minute, I should not belong here. And yet here I am in actual agreement with a lot of what you guys were saying,” but. I always make sure that I-

Michael:
He’s wrong. He’s wrong about a few things. He’s wrong about a few important things, but he’s right about so much.

Jefferson Drexler:
But even the guys who I tend to agree with all the time, I think Glen Beck is probably the only one who would say that he’s right all the time, but. But, no-

Michael:
He would say it, or you would say it ?

Jefferson Drexler:
… my point is… He would say, “I’m never wrong. Are you kidding me?” No. My point is, I always do try to make sure that I at least dip my toe in the waters of the more liberal bend newsfeeds as well. The CNNs, MSNBCs, Young Turks, et cetera, because I want to see not just, what do I believe is what’s going on in the world, but I want to know what other people are going.

Jefferson Drexler:
There’s a phrase that I’ve used since I was a teenager, which is if I’m talking to somebody about an event, and they see something completely different than me. What I search for is, I’m like, “Look, I don’t agree with you at all, but I understand you. And if we can understand one another, we don’t have to agree. We could still coexist and live with one another.” And so much of that is founded on where are that other that I’m talking to? Where are they getting their news from? Where are they getting information from?

Michael:
Source? voice?

Jefferson Drexler:
And if all they’re getting information from is from this side, then all their opinions and everything are going to go that way as well.

Michael:
Well, and it’s funny that you mentioned Tim Pool, but he always mentions this study, and he cites it all the time and pulls it up or whatever. The study of humans have different tendencies, different personalities. And we’re not just talking about gender and stuff like that, but there are personality types, et cetera. The human situation is very complex and to think all humans are exactly the same. It’s like, that’s the problem.

Michael:
It’s this binary choice, either humans are all exactly the same, or there’s such a fabric of multiplicity within us that we’re this gorgeous mosaic. It’s either, everybody’s the same, or you’re an incredible mosaic. You can’t have both, but there are tendencies in this mosaic, which is the true side. Tendencies, and the research says that people, that certain personality types tend to be more conservative and certain person personality types tend to be more liberal.

Michael:
And as a result, those who tend to be more liberal, only consume certain types of content. 90, 95% of their information comes from people who agree with them. And then other personality types are like, “Well, let’s just think it through and see what… ” And it’s like 60 to 70% of their content comes from conservative. But then they go over and 30 to 40% of their time is looking at other perspectives, and it’s just personality types.

Michael:
And it has a political effect or consequence, but it’s a natural tendencies. And so it’s the people that, by definition are ignorant, that are if you only listen to one voice, you are by definition ignorant, just in the definitional sense, you just don’t know. You don’t know what else is out there. It’s not a pejorative in that sense. It’s like, you are, by definition, ignorant because you only choose to listen to what you agree with.

Michael:
Whereas, so you mentioned the Young Turks. Did you hear? YouTube recommends videos, and I’ll watch them. And Cenk Uygur, he’s the Young Turk guy. The video I just watched was him basically, saying, “Well, I don’t know. I don’t know if it would be such an easy contest if Joe Rogan and I got in the ring. I don’t know if it would be such an easy contest for Joe.” It’s like, Joe would pummel that guy and destroy that guy in an instant. And he’s like, “Well, I don’t know. I’m a scrapper. I’ve fought.” He’d get so owned in a fight against Joe Rogan.

Jefferson Drexler:
I did hear about that. Yeah. And it reminded me. So I did video shoot a couple weeks ago. And we both work in the industry at different levels, but. I was doing some field audio for a documentary. And it was the first time in my entire career. So I’ve been doing this for close to 30 years. First time ever, I was actually afraid for my own safety.

Michael:
Oh, you were talking about… yes.

Jefferson Drexler:
Yeah. So I was in a situation, where we were surrounded by gang members. And I’m like, “If this goes sideways, there is no escaping this.” And-

Michael:
That’s what we talked about last time.

Jefferson Drexler:
It’s funny because I heard. Yeah, that’s right.

Michael:
About last time.

Jefferson Drexler:
So I heard that comment from the Young Turks. I heard about the comment. And I’m thinking, “Dude, Joe Rogan is that gang of gang members. You don’t say it again.”

Michael:
Exactly.

Jefferson Drexler:
I’ve been trained to fight. I know how to defend myself, but there’s no defending yourself when the odds are stacked that much. It’s kind of like that old bet we used to have in the ’80s, ’90s, of how much would you be allowed? Or how much would you take in order to step in the ring with Mike Tyson? You can’t spend $5 billion if you’re drinking your lunch through a straw for the rest of your life.

Michael:
People who’ve never competed in a one-on-one combat sport, have no grasp of how quickly it ends, of how quickly it’s over. A person that knows what they’re doing versus a person that doesn’t know what they’re doing. I’m going to tell a story. So I went to college late. I was 24 when I started college. And I did it quick. I did it in three and a half semesters, basically, a semester early.

Michael:
But for the first two years, I went to a junior college, and I picked a junior college that had a wrestling team because I wrestled. I was, that was my sport. I grew up as a combatant. My first time seeing Joe Rogan was UFC. I was watching UFC, and that’s where I learned who Joe Rogan was. I didn’t learn of him as an actor or a comedian or all the other things he did. It was UFC. And then Fear Factor, so.

Michael:
I was a 24, 25-year-old. I was in my peak physical shape, but I have nagging injuries. My thumbs would get snagged while you’re wrestling or my ankles would… tied up. So I’d go into the training room every day before practice and just get taped up. And so I got to know the trainers. And one of the guys that was a trainer was a baseball and basketball stud. And he was a student at the school, but also was really a stud in these sports. He was taller, bigger, stronger than I. And we got to talk about wrestling. We got to talking about wrestling. This guy was a stud, and we were friends. And he is like, “Oh, dude, I’d take you.”

Michael:
I’m like, I was the captain of the wrestling team. This is my second year in the junior college. He goes, “I’d take you.” I’m like, “Oh.” And this is an athletic guy. He’s in the middle of one of his seasons. He was working out. He was in the training room, working and getting taped up or whatever.

Michael:
“All right, let’s put it on the calendar. My coach will not approve of this. So you need to come before the coach gets there. I’m the captain of the team. I’ll open the room. I’ll have one of my other wrestlers be the referee, and we’ll have a little audience. You can bring whoever you want from the training staff or whatever. Let’s do it.” I said, “Okay.” He even borrowed wrestling shoes from his girlfriend. He’s like, “Dancers use wrestling shoes. They’re real comfortable.”

Michael:
And he came in. I’m telling you, he’s bigger, stronger. He’s taller than I am, stronger than I am. And they blew the whistle, and it was over in 30 seconds, and he had a bloody nose. I had him tied up in a headlock with his arm. I was like, “You want to breathe or not?” You just cut off their air. You can either pummel somebody and hurt them, or if you know what you’re doing, you just render them immobile. You just tie them up in a knot, and they can’t move, and you can cut off their air. So it was over in thirty-

Jefferson Drexler:
And you see this in-

Michael:
… seconds.

Jefferson Drexler:
You see that in these stupid drunk fight, YouTube videos and stuff too. It goes hand in hand with this philosophy that the studio where my family, especially my kids now work out with mixed martial arts. And the way they do it is they’ll do a unit, or, say, six weeks of boxing, then six weeks of wrestling, or jujitsu. And then six weeks of karate, and they go through the calendar year doing every different discipline.

Jefferson Drexler:
And part of it, even from fairly young kids, is they actually spar, and they get punched in the face. Because the owner of it all, the guy who founded this whole thing, he says, “Not just in mixed martial arts, not just in self-defense, but in life, you have to learn how to take that punch and then move on and move forward.” And so he’s constantly teaching and using that, and they start, when they’re little, it’s just very light sparing.

Michael:
You got to shake it off.

Jefferson Drexler:
As they get… Yeah. As they get older, I mean, they’re really, they’re hitting. And so I have two 14-year-olds that are really hitting. And it’s funny because they will often, or not often, periodically, they’ll goof around, and they’ll spar with their cousin, who’s a black belt in TaeKwonDo. In TaeKwonDo, you never-

Michael:
It’s discipline.

Jefferson Drexler:
It’s completely different. It’s a lot of poses, and it looks the same from a distance, but really it’s really different. And so they would spar. And all of a sudden, when we let loose, and you’ll punch the kid in the face, “Whoa-

Michael:
pummel-

Jefferson Drexler:
… why, are you hitting me?”

Michael:
Right.

Jefferson Drexler:
And my kids are like-

Michael:
Pummel the head back.

Jefferson Drexler:
… “That’s what you do. I mean, what do you mean,-

Michael:
It’s fighting, right?

Jefferson Drexler:
… why am I?” So. But my point is, whether-

Michael:
TaeKwonDo is not really-

Jefferson Drexler:
… that trainer-

Michael:
… going to defend you.

Jefferson Drexler:
No, no, no. And whether it’s that trainer that you were taking down in 30 seconds, or if it’s just life circumstances. I think this goes hand-in-hand with the scripture that you’re reading, too. It’s very imperative that we gird ourselves up, and we train ourselves to get ready for those moments in life that are just going to pound the crap out of us. And yet, we’re called-

Michael:
Take a beating.

Jefferson Drexler:
… now, take that punch and now, move on. And where does that strength come from? Where does that knowledge, those life skills? Where does that faith, that hope, that joy, that love, where does that come from? Well, for us as believers-

Michael:
Look at you, look at you tying it into what matters the most. Nice, nice. I’m like, I was just thinking-

Jefferson Drexler:
There’s a lot. And it’s great because our mixed martial arts guy is also a believer. And so it’s really cool that he will-

Michael:
Oh, cool.

Jefferson Drexler:
… pull our kids aside say, “See, this is what I’m talking about.”

Michael:
Nice. Oh, what a blessing to have that in your life. I’s comforting that it’s a mentor who is on the same team as dad. It’s somebody your kids look up to, that’s going to point them in the right direction, teach them practical skills and how to use that as a metaphor for what we’re really going through. I jokingly, say often, “I got about a quadruple PhD in the school of hard knocks, man.” My mom’s in here-

Jefferson Drexler:
Nobody failed as many tests as me.

Michael:
My mom’s in here, Bonnie, she likes to speak up in here. Let’s see. She was commenting on the spiritual things earlier, but she could testify as to what kind of crazy stuff I’ve had to go through, so. And I’m not talking about wrestling, I’m talking about wrestling with life like Jacob did and wrestled with God. And that was a literal thing, but it’s that literal thing is a metaphor for what we’re all doing wrestling with God. Why is my life going this way? Why is these things happening and good and bad? It’s all God’s plan. As long as you understand that.

Michael:
And so the things that you, you take a punch square in the face, metaphorically, and say, “God, why did that happen?” And you don’t get wrapped up in yourself. Your eyes are already on God. If you aren’t looking at God in every circumstance, then you tend to just not understand. And all right, let’s see, our culture today is reactive. Not thinking, communicating, reasoning together. All right. So Jefferson, we only have-

Jefferson Drexler:
We go through what we go through to help others get through what they’re going to go through.

Michael:
There’s a phrase that-

Jefferson Drexler:
God allows certain things so that we can… And we sit there, and we go, “Why me? Why is this?” And then years later, we’re like, “Hey, buddy,” who I’m now mentoring. “Let me tell you what I went through so that you can then get through what you’re going.” Sorry, go ahead.

Michael:
No, right. That’s what it is. You-

Jefferson Drexler:
I’m preaching.

Michael:
Well, aren’t we all? Our life, it’s lifestyle ministry as well. You’re just relaying your personal experience. There’s a phrase, “You’re not responsible for what happens to you. You are responsible for your response. You’re not responsible for what happens to you. You’re responsible for how you respond to the circumstances.” You can’t change it. There are so much that’s totally out of your control. You just control what you can control. And there’s, so here we are spouting wisdom. Proverbs, here, there is my proverb. Your turn, Jefferson, you got another proverb for us?

Jefferson Drexler:
It is a fool who thinks that he can spout Proverbs.

Michael:
I think my mom actually is one of the only people who ever came to one of my wrestling matches. “I never worried he would get hurt.” Oh, good. And my dad has a similar sentiment, and more on the metaphorical side. My mom, I think she’s talking about physically in the sport. But on the metaphorical side, my dad recently said to me, he said, “You are always resourceful.” Because my dad was… We won’t go into my personal history too much. Well, we always do here. It’s my mom was-

Jefferson Drexler:
This whole conversation was started by you wanting to remain anonymous. Now we’re going to tell your whole biography.

Michael:
Oh, no. Oh, you misunderstood me. I do not want to remain anonymous. I’m wanting to savor my anonymity while it lasts. I don’t think I’m actually going to remain anonymous much longer. I mean, for example, I started a YouTube channel called Sweet Home Maricopa, and I had 26,000 subscribers in two and a half months, two and a half months, 26, so that’s more fame than I’ve ever had. So I am now more famous than I ever was before that happened.

Michael:
But it’s not just those 26,000 subscribers. The videos that I created on that channel have been viewed by 500,000, like a half a million people have seen my face on camera, so that’s the level of fame. And if they saw me again, at some point, there’s 500,000 people out there who have heard my voice and seen my face, so that’s a higher level fame than I’ve ever had.

Michael:
But that’s just the beginning of what I think is happening on our network. I think, it’s like, I’m putting my face out there. I’m putting a target on my back because I’m representing Soghomon Tehlirian, the hero of the Armenians. So there’s about 11 million people on the planet that once they find out what I’m doing, I’ll be super famous in that community. I’m already somewhat famous in that community. They’re historians that know me, that, et cetera. So fame is once your name gets to a certain level, and you’re a household name, that’s a different level of fame where anonymity’s gone. It’s people that use one name, like, Oprah, Madonna.

Jefferson Drexler:
I remember when you worked on the Daily Show.

Michael:
Yeah, right. So, and it’s not that I’m pursuing… Let me just finish with this. And I want to… before we wrap up. And I’ve had this conversation before, it’s not that I’m pursuing fame for fame’s sake. If somebody said, “Yeah, you just want to be famous.” I had a deep meditation between me and God about that. Because my wife said, “You just want to be famous.” I’m like, “You’re right. I do.” Because I think it’s part of God’s plan for my life to advance what he wants to do in the world. And that’s the only reason anybody should want to be famous, so. There, I needed to make sure that caveat is there. I’m not just, it’s all about me. No, no. It’s all about him.

Jefferson Drexler:
Yes. I pray

Michael:
Jefferson.

Jefferson Drexler:
And is God, thank you for loving us, help us learn to love you more and follow your will. And if fame or anonymity, if busyness or rest, whatever comes with that, then that needs to be the priority is teach me to love you more and follow your will day by day by day by day.

Michael:
Here’s one thing that I try to communicate to those who are fame-seekers, so we should address that. There’s a whole generation that just, you interview them, and they’re like, “Ah, I’m going to be famous.” Or, “I want to be famous.” And you ask them, “How?” I’m like, “I don’t know. I just want to.” So it’s that drive.

Michael:
The fact of the matter is every one of us already have the undivided attention of the only audience that matters. We literally are watched perpetually by the most loving audience, adoring audience. An audience that just is effusive. So effusive in love and praise for us that he sacrificed himself. He just laid down his own life so that he could just see us be perfected through eternity. So we already have an undivided attention of the greatest audience. Now, there’s other people, if you want to be famous, do something interesting. Do some art, do something creative, do something excellent and glorify the other audience that you already have. There, we should sub clip that out, send it out there.

Jefferson Drexler:
And such perfect timing. I don’t know what your church attendance thing is this week, but here, in passion week, this being Maundy Thursday, tomorrow, Good Friday, going into Easter again.

Michael:
Thank you for bringing that up.

Jefferson Drexler:
That is just such perfect lessons though. I mean, as far as that-

Michael:
We will… Producer-

Jefferson Drexler:
A ridicule to the fame, to the do something to… That’s the gospel and Acts story right there. I mean, you nailed it.

Michael:
All right. It was just something that percolated up and seemed to resolve, and thank you for tying it into Easter. Producer, sub clip out that thing, just the beginning and end and post it everywhere for Easter. Make it the Easter message. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you, Drexler. We just found the Easter message for This Way Network. All right. Well, in the last 30 seconds, I’m going to give it to you.

Jefferson Drexler:
So, as we head into Easter, be sure to continue watching, listening, and subscribe to This Way Network and check out Christian Podcast Central as well, and see all the encouraging and uplifting and entertaining media that’s out there waiting for you to learn to love God’s people and learn to love God.

Michael:
Be inspired. There’s inspirational stuff, educational stuff. All right. We love you all. See-